Last month I was asked to speak at the BLOGHER conference in Chicago as a guest of Monster Inspiration. The topic was The Business of Blogging and I was honored to be on the panel with such esteemed guest such as Patrice Yursik of Afrobella, Gabi Gregg of GabiFresh and Natalia Simmons of Ma Nouvelle Mode.
If you want to see the full transcript of of the conversation you can see it after the jump.
>> I wanted to let you know that we are starting at 10:45 instead of 10:30.
>> Hello. I’m Stacy Morrison. I’m the editor and chief from BlogHer. Thank you for joining us today. I got lost twice, thank you for finding the room. I’m so excited to be here to officially kick off the first ever BlogHer mini con. What I always say is style, as everyone says, we all have our sayings about style, but for me it’s just that whole thing of what do you choose to surround yourself with. It’s always everything from beauty to fashion to DIY to home. I’m so excited because I bought a new home, so I’m all about wallpaper at the moment. But I’m going to introduce our first panel. What this is, we have Patrice from Afrobella, who is a dear friend and a local girl. We have Gabi Gregg from Gabifresh. Natalia Simmons from Ma Nouvelle Mode, and Marcus Troy. He is a plan of the Blogosphere.
Can I moderate standing up? So we’ll kick off the panel. What we’re talking about is how do you leverage your online platform and not rely on it solely. As we know, making money from blogs is a little bit like a magic trick. You have to do a special combination of things to make it all come together and work for you. Find your tribe, create your audience, and figure out how to create with the brands that love that same audience and go from there.
I’ll start down here at this end. I’ll ask you guys each to tell just a little bit about your story about what made you decide to start blogging and how long you’ve been doing it.
>> PATRICE: My name is Patrice. I’m a creator of the blog Afrobella. I created it in August of 2006. At that time I was working in print media for a newspaper. I was kind of bored at my job. I felt like I couldn’t write like I wanted to write. There wasn’t a lot of coverage of me in the media, like me, natural hair, plus size, beautiful on your own terms. So that’s kind of what I it. I created the magazine that I couldn’t find. It really started out very whimsical and I didn’t think it would be a brand. It started out as an outlet and a hobby. There was another part of the question.
>> STACY: The second part was now that you’ve been in it and done it, what’s the piece of advice that sort of like this is what I know and this is where I live it the most.
>> PATRICE: The best advice I can give, I created the blog as a creative expression, as a passion project, and not going into it as my SCO is going to be this and this is my strategy and this is my business plan. It’s not like that. It was really a pure love. That has sustained my energy in the years that I’ve been doing it. So yeah, a lot has changed since 2006.
>> STACY: You’re one of the OOB’s as I call them.
>> PATRICE: That’s my advice.
>> STACY: Gabi, tell us what made you start and what you’ve been doing in it and then what’s your number one thing that you’ve learned. We all know it’s all about the love and you have to love your passion and how each of you have to come up with more creative and special answers. No pressure. I’ll make them up.
>> GABI: I have a very similar story to Patrice. Sorry if it’s a little repetitive. My name is Gabi. I have a personal style blog called Gabifresh. I started in 2008 after I graduated from college. I was really interested in fashion and fashion journalism in particular. I didn’t have a lot of experience. I tried interviewing for internships and I really couldn’t find anything. 2008 wasn’t a really great year to start job hunting. So by that fall I decided to start a blog. Like Patrice, I had no idea blogs could make money. It was a passion project. I thought it was a great way to show future interviewers this is where I show my writing style. This is how I show that I have personal style. And over time it kind of evolved into more of an outfit and personal style blog. When I first started it was more about advice.
Yeah, I guess my biggest tip or piece of advice would be keep your integrity. I think that’s what has sustained me as long as I’ve been blogging. Is that I haven’t, in my opinion, even though I’ve switched over to monetize my blog, I really don’t think I’ve ever lost my voice or “sold out,” and just worked with any brand that kind of throws itself at me. I’m really, really picky how I monetize and the brands I choose to work on.
>> STACY: Right on. Marcus, tell us your story.
>> MARCUS: I’m the only guy on the panel.
>> STACY: We officially call you a BlogHim.
>> MARCUS: I started MarcusTroy.com in 2008. It was travel, food, lifestyle. Really connected my audience. I started it with only one person reading it, which was my friend. And every day he would comment on the site and encourage me to kind of keep
>> STACY: That is a good friend.
>> MARCUS: So I always treated my entity like I was doing it for that one person, even though it grew and grew and grew. And I’ve been featured in a lot of great places and a lot of great press. But I always share the things that I’m doing. Like I’m only reaching one person. I think that’s what kind of keeps me going. Passion, as these ladies mentioned, has been like the driving force of what I do. In real life I share. I’ll tell you where to eat, where to stay, what to wear, where to shop. The blog was an extension of that. I’ve been able to turn this into a media company and create a lot of strategic partnerships with brands and do a lot of great collaborations with the best brands in the world. I’ve been able to travel the world because of blogging and this platform. I’ve become brand Ambassadors for a lot of the brands. It’s a journey.
I’ve built my brand organically. I think the organic process is what’s important. Not being obsessed with growth. A lot of people start a blog and they want to grow right away, like I need 10,000 followers on Instagram. I need a million followers on my page. Don’t be obsessed with growth. Build it from the ground up and always treat it like it’s your first project. That’s kind of how you maintain it, I guess, over the years. That’s kind of my story.
>> STACY: Awesome. Okay. Natalia from Ma Nouvelle Mode. Wonderful blog.
>> NATALIA: I started two years ago. I was living in France at the time. I have two little boys. And I had kind of just lost my sense of self. I had found myself being a mom and not taking care of myself, not doing my hair and makeup: I remembered back before kids, I liked that stuff. What happened? I lost the sense of self. I really felt bad for my husband. He doesn’t want to be married to that.
So I decided I needed to make a change. At the point I figured the blog was a really good way to do that. I didn’t want to write about my family, so I decided to write more about fashion and exploring new things and getting new style. Ma Nouvelle Mode means my new style in French. The ladies I didn’t know at the time what the opportunities would be or even that there would be opportunities. I just started it mainly for myself and to explore all these options. And it is exciting to see that not only have I experienced a lot of opportunities, but there are some that I’m not even aware of at this point just because there are so many.
Probably my biggest piece of advice would be just to stay true to yourself, because as you can see in this huge conference, there’s a lot of bloggers. But you just don’t want to look at someone else and really you can admire what they do, but just know that you don’t have to do that. You need to figure out what your niche is, why you’re good at. Stay true. When people come to your blog, they want to know you. It will come across fake, so just figure out you, your niche, what you are in that space and embrace that and go with it.
>> STACY: Awesome, thank you. So we’ll talk about the big things people care about most. We’ll just give you guys a little bit of an outline so you know what’s coming. Everybody wants to know how you grow your traffic. I want to talk to you about some of the amazing partnerships that each of you have done, how did you find them and make that matchup happen and then where do you go from here. We can start anywhere. We don’t have to go down the line and make Patrice go first. We’re not in kindergarten. Who wants to go first and talk about traffic?
>> GABI: I can talk about traffic. I’ll be honest and transparent that I am not big with SEO. I don’t focus on SEO. But obviously that’s the way to go if that’s your number one goal is just traffic. I think knowing SEO is very crucial. I do know a lot about it, having worked for MTV in the past with their Blogosphere. They were obviously MTV news really big on getting traffic. So we were all about keywords and making sure you title your blog the right thing and all those types of things. And I’m sure many of you may know about SEO.
Personally, my traffic has all been organic. It’s something that I’m probably too attached to. I need to let go of that and have more of a business sense when it comes to that sort of thing. But in a way I’m almost proud that I know when I market myself or tweet or use Facebook, I’m always doing it from a place of sharing. The same way I would do it even if I weren’t a blogger.
So that being said, I think content is key. So I’m very lucky in that I don’t blog as much as I should. Patrice knows, because we talked about this a lot. I’m kind of a sporadic blogger. I blog once a week, sometimes once every other week. I’m still lucky enough to have over a million hits per month. And I think that just speaks to the fact that when you have content that is really engaging and that when people really love you, they’re gonna come back and check and really spread the word. That goes back to what Natalia was saying, when it comes to knowing your niche. I’m a plussized women. It’s focused on plussized stores, tips, and style. Because I have that corner kind of what’s the word.
>> STACY: I have the corner cornered.
>> GABI: Exactly. People come back to me for that reason, especially with personal style bloggers. I’m not sure how many of you have your personal style blogs and if it’s about your outfits. I think those are almost in a way easier to define yourself because people come to you for your style. It doesn’t matter how many other blogs you go to, whether they’re plus size or not. If they like your style, they’ll come back to see your outfits. So something I know that I should be doing is getting on a more consistent schedule, but that being said, I think content is really, really the key to grow your traffic.
Obviously, social media networking, and I think some other people can speak to that.
>> MARCUS: I’d like to add, I also believe that quality, I know it sounds cliche, but quality over quantity is actually important. I created something called the blogger’s project in Las Vegas and New York where I invite bloggers to be at the biggest trade show called Magic and Project. I’m looking for the blogs and picking are people who have great taste and great styles. I’m not looking at numbers. There’s a whole lot of brands who now they’re looking for people that have great taste and great style and great design. It’s not always about the numbers. And you can get great opportunities and not be the number one trafficked blog. A lot of people get into the blogging game. I can’t get an opportunity because I have no numbers and they think that’s not true. I think that used to be the case, but a lot more brands are looking to work with people that have quality over quantity.
>> I feel like the niche is the new game. We know the power of content. There was a period when advertisers thought they could put their own brand of content and they realized they had to do the partnerships with you and other style makers around. I think it is true. Big is still good, especially for the bigger brands.
>> MARCUS: Big is great. But there’s a ton of opportunity.
>> STACY: I think they think of it as super niche. Nike knew who they were getting when you designed that sneaker with them, the reach you had in the universe of avid sneaker collectors.
>> PATRICE: I want to go back to what Gabi was saying she’s not consistent. The reason you’re able to have the amount of people coming to your blog every month is because you are a trend setter. And that’s what I think no, it’s true. You really march to your own beat. You’re doing your own thing, and I think that’s the most important thing, especially in the beauty and style niche where we’re getting the same press releases every day and the same information and how many collections is this brand going to come out with, do I have to write about every single one, do I have to swatch all this nail polish. You can do that if you want to. But there comes a point where you’re like why am I keeping up everybody else, when I can just step out on my own. So that’s kind of what I do in terms of creating content. I read a lot. I read as many other blogs as I can. I stay on Twitter. I see what everybody’s up to. And then I’m like if everybody is talking about this, do I also need to talk about this or can I add something different. So my blog is not a personal style blog. I’ll throw in a personal style every now and then. But it really covers a wide gamut of things. That’s because I have a little bit of ADD, I think. And also, I just started out in a very specific niche and it’s grown and grown. Now it’s just the things that I’m interested in. It becomes about you. The balance is how much is too much me and how much is what my readers actually need and what they’re looking to me for. It can be struggle finding that balance. There were things I did in my early blogging years that I no longer do. I have a consistent readership it’s creating that expectation of quality. You’re getting a certain standard of writing, a certain standard of information that you’re not going to get elsewhere. So hopefully you’ll come back the next time.
I also don’t really look at analytics and numbers. I guess I should be more on top of that, but I just feel very comfortable. Will this sound crazy? I feel comfortable in my position because I’ve been doing it for so long.
>> STACY: That comes across in your blog so much. You decide what you were not going to do and you decided you would stop doing the updates about what’s the new makeup and new clothes and you’ll be about life and my love for music and my connection to my friends.
>> PATRICE: It was a really outstanding makeup collection, then I’ll write about it. But what is the information that’s not going to be anywhere else. You need to know about this one lipstick in this collection, because it’s the hottest one. You know what I mean? You don’t need to do everything that everybody else is doing.
>> GABI: Quickly I’ll add to that when I started blogging in the beginning, I was the first plus size style blogger in America that was, like, super my blog was originally called Young, Fat, and Fabulous. It was all about being plus size, happy with my body. Originally I would post every editorial that featured a plus sized model. As plus size blogs grew, there are now hundreds, which I think is great. It’s so wonderful that you can go to all these different blogs, see different styles. But the hard part about that is I would see the same editorials on every plus size blog. I would see the same products. And I was like I don’t want that. I want to have a unique space where people are really coming to my blog for a reason. And I personally really hate going to my favorite bloggers and seeing that they’re all posting about the same thing. I want unique content.
So that really helps me determine that I really wanted to focus on myself, because no one could bring me to their blog besides me.
>> NATALIA: I was going to add, just like maybe a little bit more way of a tangible way. (Laughter).
>> NATALIA: Yeah. Because all these things are excellent what you’re saying. Content, stay true to yourself, create good content. But I would say two tangible ways is networking. I think it’s huge. If you could create a group of women/men, whoever, in your tribe, people that are rooting for you and you’re rooting for them and you can support each other. Tweet when you need to tweet. Whatever Facebook share or anything like that. Maybe even collaborate on things. I’ve seen when I collaborate with other bloggers, someone that’s maybe in the same niche as me that we’ve kind of got the same things going on, they stay on my sight anywhere from four to 12 minutes. That’s pretty good quality traffic. And it’s not about two people oh, but it’s a competition. There’s enough space for everybody. If it’s another fashion blogger or something that they blog about something similar, they’re gonna hopefully come to your site and be interested and stay there as well. It’s a good way to expand your network and to reach all these other people that otherwise you might not have met or known, and then hopefully they’ll come to you and maybe enjoy your content, create that good unique content. The other thing is Patrice said she doesn’t work about analytics, but I suggest don’t stress about them, but you can get a lot of really good information from your analytics.
Go to them and see who is coming to your site. Where are they coming from, and look at are they staying, what pages are they clicking on, what are the exit pages that they’re leaving from. And you can really determine, okay what is working for me. This campaign that I did here and I tried this new thing, and they really stayed and they engaged in my content. But this, they left immediately. So you can I don’t want to say that you need to put too much pressure, because then you’ll just stress yourself out, but at least look at it to the point where you can learn from it, take what you think you need to improve, and then move forward from there and just see. I think it will give you good knowledge to move forward and see how you can grow your blog.
>> MARCUS: I just want to add one more thing. I think the reason why these ladies are winning as well is I think they became the face of their site. And I think building your own personal brand and letting people know who you are, there’s that emotional connection. That’s how you build your traffic. Now they want to know about your opinions, what you’re into. Before, and I think bloggers are becoming the new taste makers and influencers. They don’t like the words, but unfortunately that’s what’s happening. When you become the face of your site and you build your brand as the brand, I think you connected your audience in a different way. And I think that’s really, really important. So when you start living your blog life that way, you don’t have to worry about traffic and SEO and whatnot. If you decide to live that way. There are some sites who obviously that’s what they’re based on. There’s no face to the site. It’s strictly numbers and advertising and whatnot. But I think you guys have built a great business from just being yourself and being the brand that you want to put out to the world.
>> STACY: And I think one of the things about analytics, you don’t have to watch the numbers, but you do want to know what are the top three search terms that drive to your site, because that means that’s a little bit where your heat is. It’s also good to look at that and said oh, I didn’t think my blog was about that. But it’s really useful, because how Google sees you does kind of serve up how people will find you.
So if you think about what is my blog in three words, what do I know I want it to be. It’s like you know it would be plus size and you know it would be about fashion and you know it would be about lifestyle and travel, and you know it would be about music and I’m awesome, which is like the core Afrobella thing. But it’s a way to help you frame your work and really drive to the target.
I know when I was in magazine publishing, I always looked at what the top top articles was. The last one was Redbook magazine and our number one article was how to get pregnant. I guess that makes sense.
I want to talk about some of the different partnerships that you’ve done and how you work with sponsors and advertisers and what you like and what you don’t, what you decide to walk away from. There’s so much to talk about here, it’s really hard. We could do this for, like, three hours. But this is the great stuff.
>> NATALIA: So kind of like networks and working directly. So I was had lunch with a PR rep from Edelman yesterday, and I think everyone is probably at different stages, which is great, because you’ll learn lot from the different stages we’re at. But I think it’s good to explore all of your options. I think networks are a good idea. Maybe if you’re still growing your content, still growing your stats and everything like that, just look to what networks can get you out there, because basically when a brand wants to work with bloggers, they’re either having something really specific like they want a plus size model that will do this and they have you in mind, then they’ll go directly to that person. On the other hand they’re saying we just want a really big reach and they’re gonna hire 50 bloggers to do something. And you can do something like that through a network.
So I think both of them are really good options. And I think it’s a good idea to explore both. Maybe if you’re on the beginning end, it’s a good idea to look at the networks that work with those kind of bloggers, because even then you’re giving yourself an opportunity to be seen by that brand even if you are going through a network and then potentially if you continue to work in that direction, potentially you could put yourself to them and work directly with them.
So I think there’s lots of options and I think it’s a good idea, I guess, depending on where you’re at to explore both things.
>> MARCUS: So my personal business was a bit different. I kind of always cut out the middle man. Not that I wanted to, but I didn’t really need to work with a network. All the partnerships that I’ve developed have been really organic through conversations with people who were fans of what I was doing. They were into my personal brand and things I was trying to accomplish. They believed in my vision, so cutting out the middle man, the network was really I was able to work with brands directly and become partnerships with a lot of these companies and travel with them, work with them, and create these huge campaigns, whether it be with brands like Nike and Timberland and Puma. To me it’s working with people who fit in with my ethos and what I believe in. Recently I’ve become an ambassador for Monster headphones. That came through a conversation and I think there’s a lot of opportunity to build out relationships with brands in a really organic way. You don’t have to force yourself onto them. You do good work and I believe they’ll come to you. Again, I think also if your name and your representation is good with an industry that you’re in, brands hear about you and your name gets tossed around in board meetings and whatnot. You might get a phone call or email. You never know what’s out there. Working with brands is not only you forcing yourself to work with them, but also being able to do good work and have your name speak for itself.
>> PATRICE: I agree with that. If you’re at a more beginning level, everyone at different places, I think getting into a network is a good idea. Obviously that’s when you have a name, brands will come to you. But a lot of people don’t have names yet or stand out. So joining a network is a great way to kind of get introduced to brands. Other than that, I think it’s a good thing to have a media kit and be that way you can kind of tell your own story. So put together who comes to your blog, your followers, how many people, how many followers you have on Twitter, Facebook, etc. Basically you’re selling yourself. That way you can have that ready when a brand comes to ask you for what you stand for. But beyond that, you could also pitch yourself. I’m not great with pitching myself, but I think the important thing to remember when you’re pitching yourself to a brand is just be careful and don’t be pushy. Just kind of the organic way in my opinion is the best. So even if you see a brand is working with bloggers, maybe find their email through going through their website and then let them know that you’re interested in working with them or just introduce yourself. I think that’s a really good way to start is just introducing yourself to the PR rep, hey, here is my name, here is my blog. I love what you guys are doing. It would be great if you could keep me in mind for future events even. I think if you go to a brand and say I want to work with you or I’m amazing. Sadly, it sounds obvious, but I’ve heard from so many PR reps. You would the emails they get from bloggers saying you should work for instance, I just had a collaboration where I designed a bikini line that I’ll talk a little bit later. The PR reps said so many bloggers have approached her saying you should work with me instead next year. That’s not going to get you opportunity. Even if you were in their mind before, you probably aren’t anymore. Just be casual and conversational, the same way you would build a relationship with a friend is how you should approach PR reps.
Speaking to network. I specially don’t have a network but I am signed to a blogging agency, Digital Blog Architects. It’s very helpful for me because they represent a certain amount of bloggers and brands come to them, but they also pitch you to brands. So I kind of like having a middleman because it’s very hard for me being a creative person to negotiate numbers with brands. It’s very uncomfortable when a brand is offering you $50 for a blog post and you want to say I’m worth more than $50, but that way when your agent does it, you don’t have to create that uncomfortable tension. So if you work with them in the future, you see them at an event, there’s none of that weirdness.
It can take a while to get to an agency level, but I’m finding out there are more and more agencies popping up. Beyond DBA, our friend Marie is signed with
>> STACY: You guys probably know about Sway group. They work a lot with bloggers. There is a couple of different agencies.
>> PATRICE: And social item.
>> I feel like you can go the agency route or currently I’m working with a manager who doesn’t actually have any other bloggers with her. And I like that approach more. That’s what’s been working for me. I kind of like being the only child.
I’ve been with the same agent the same network for a very long time, and I think that it’s really important. If you’re thinking about signing with a network, look to the networks that have been around longest, because there’s so many. There was a period, I want to say, in 2007 or 2008 where there was different ad agency, and how many of them have just disappeared and dropped all their bloggers and just then you’re in this position of now what?
So I know a lot of people who you start out hosting your own ads, Google ads, things you can do in terms of that level.
In terms of getting branded opportunities, I cannot tell you how many have gotten through Twitter. Twitter has been huge. And it’s changed things because you’re talking just now about reaching out to different brands. Now you don’t even really have to go through the whole visit their website and find their contact. You can just follow them on Twitter and engage with them and hopefully that will lead to them following you back and you being able to get the information that you need.
So that’s been a really organic and easy way for me to create new contacts and also just using my Twitter wisely. I see a lot of people and I hear a lot about this where it’s like well, I wanted to work with this person, but the way that they tweet maybe not want to work or the things they felt to share on Instagram or their tone or their engagement turned me off. So you have to really think you’re in the world’s biggest conference room when you’re on there.
>> MARCUS: And you have to think about your social currency. That’s the biggest thing people miss. It’s the most important thing in the world for our business.
>> Absolutely. It is for our business and for others as well. I think there’s a lot of people out there who think Twitter is like writing in their diary, or let me just kick it with the homies and tell them this funny thing I saw today. There’s room for that as well. Definitely still be yourself, but recognize that your friends are not the only people who are following you. You don’t even know what you could be cutting off just from using that the wrong way.
>> MARCUS: Hundred percent.
>> NATALIA: Can I just say, like with working with brands, a good idea is going back to networking. And I think like you said, Twitter is a great idea. Too, this conference, take advantage of the expo floor, because a lot of the people representing those brands are from companies like Edelman and they work for companies as well. Even if you’re talking about something that doesn’t pertain to you, but if you develop a good relationship with that PR person and they really like who you are and you’re just developing you’re not going to up to them saying you really need to work with me.
>> MARCUS: I’m amazing.
>> NATALIA: I’m amazing, and going back to that. But they’ve all been saying, but that networking I think is huge. It has to happen organically. You can’t make brands want to call you. You can’t just push it. But if you’re at events like this or even on Twitter, if you can’t come to the events, just constantly be there. Don’t be asking for favors. Just be there. Get to know people. Work it, that kind of thing. Just know like you’re saying on Twitter. It happens, too. Be careful, because you can’t if you’re talking to this person that works for some company, you’re like oh, I’d never want to work for them anyway. But they also represent these five more over here. You might’ve just lost these opportunities because you weren’t aware.
So just always be careful what you’re putting out there and also just going back to networking all the time, like in everything you do there’s always an opportunity to just reach out to more people.
>> STACY: I think being in the mix is one of the biggest things. Make sure you’re circulating both incoming conferences and circulating here, but also circulating where you are in social media and who do you see and keep bumping into. And I always thought of it as if I saw someone three times, that’s when it was about time to say, okay, let’s reach out and start a more formal relationship. But then they’ll have that sense of familiarity. You’re in my crowd, in my feed. That breeds partnerships and the thing about the Internet that’s so awesome. You bump into stuff you would never have otherwise and then sometimes magic happens.
>> MARCUS: Just to add to that, I also want to say that believe in people. Believe that people it will introduce you to other good people. That’s a very powerful thing. If people like the way you work and they like the way you present yourself, they’ll easily share what you’re doing with other people. A lot of times I get phone calls saying, hey, soandso said I should call you and I should work with you, I should talk with you, and I think that’s the most that’s such a great relationship. Exactly.
>> GABI: Just to speak to how important networking is, I’m actually a really big home body. I like to just chill with my boyfriend and watch Netflix. I miss out on a lot of events. I try to go more and more. I know so many bloggers in my vertical who may have less traffic than me, they get invited to stuff I don’t get invited to all the time. Brands who don’t know who I am, they don’t invite me out, but these bloggers who may have 10,000 followers or 10,000 hits a month get invited to things over and over again because they’re there networking, people know their faces, they will write down their name immediately when they have events. It’s important to go to the events and talk to the PR reps and be at the right place at the right time and work the room. When you don’t, you’ll miss out on a lot.
>> PATRICE: A lot of us are behind the screen individuals. And it’s I can be shy sometimes. And I don’t always push myself to make the introduction that I should. But when I do, I see the results of doing that. So what you were talking about earlier with having a network and then having people recommend you, that’s on the basis of having that good facetoface contact and establishing that you are a professional and establishing that you are somebody worth working with.
>> MARCUS: And I want to add to what you’re saying. Don’t be afraid of the hunt. Go out, get your own content, create your own content. Go out and meet people, but also do your own work. Don’t just rely on PR agencies to feed you information or to feed you this.
>> PATRICE: To your research.
>> MARCUS: When you started in 2006 and 2008, we were all hunters. There was no PR agencies, really. There was no middle man. It was really us going out and creating our own content and getting that. And I think that going back to that essence is really important, because then people look at you as being an individual and being unique in that way.
>> PATRICE: That’s what makes you a taste maker and influence instead of being
>> MARCUS: Exactly. You don’t want the problem of seeing the same contact in 3,000 sites.
>> Hi, I’m Leslie. I was in the wrong building. It’s been one of those days. Sounds like the conversation has been moving along really quickly, which means I’m dispensable. I work on the agency side and ran the business for Essence magazine. One of the questions I want to throw out to you guys, how do you see your relationships with magazines, for those of you that have been in the game for a long time, do you see them as frememies, foes, how do you work with them? Where do you see the future in the terms of that intersection between blogs and magazine?
>> MARCUS: Magazines have been using us to create their own contact now. They say, hey, we’re going to have you in print and tell us the best ten things for spring and you’re proud, and we’re really doing the work now and creating content for them. Their editors are like, hey, we can do that, but I guess it’s a gift and a curse. You’re able to work with magazines. If you’re doing guest posts on their sites or being in print or being featured, I think there’s pros and cons to it both.
I like magazines because it’s still tangible and something you can show to other people and you can bring it home to your mother and she thinks she’s proud. That’s cool.
>> LESLIE: Do you find that magazines are like, just do it for the traffic, versus treating you as another freelance writer that they might bring on?
#06: They cover it up with they’re gonna feature you. When you’re in a twopage spread talking about yourself, it’s kind of like, okay, I don’t mind sharing my ten essentials for the season. They’re smart with what they’re doing. They don’t choose the writers, but they might come to you and say, hey, can you write a post for us. Now they’re getting advertising dollars from Toyota to create content, and they’ll say we’ll pay you to go out and create content and you now become a content creator for us and you get paid for us. That’s also an opportunity to build your brand.
>> GABI: I consider magazines friends. I write for Instyle Magazine. I have a monthly column, that being said, there’s this weird perceived competition between editors and bloggers, especially a Fashion Week they won’t be happy if you’re sitting in front row next to them and all these things because they’re so used to the traditional route. Magazines are finally understanding that bloggers are legitimate and they’re the ones kind of playing catchup. For so long a lost magazines didn’t believe in the Internet. They were kind of like well, I think it’s a fad, you know. And I think they’re finally realizing, no, we need to catch up with these bloggers. So a lost these are most of them now have their own blogs. But on top of that, they I’m part of the glamour feed. They syndicate my own blog on their. I’m not getting paid for it
>> STACY: Does it bring you traffic.
>> GABI: It brings me some traffic. And so it’s a good way to get my name out there. The way I think of it is a lot of people who may visit Glamour may not have known about my blog.
>> MARCUS: You say you get paid for that?
>> GABI: I do not get paid. Instyle I do get paid for. There’s room for everyone. The great thing about blogs is they started at least especially in my niche as a way to combat magazines in the sense that I don’t see myself here. I want a space for people who look like me. Let’s talk about plus size fashion because that doesn’t exist right now. That being said, I know a lot of the talk in the industry right now is that bloggers, especially the very top style bloggers, are becoming too magazine like. We went to bloggers initially because we trusted them. We wanted real reviews. We wanted real information about brands. Because brands are working with us so often now, readers are weary. Are you selling me the same way a magazine would sell me this. You have to be careful to separate yourself in the sense that if it’s just the same thing a magazine would say, it’s just not really offering something that mainstream media hasn’t offered for years. Keep your voice, like I said in the beginning. Keep your integrity, because people want bloggers to be the people who they can trust.
>> PATRICE: Yeah, it’s about you, it’s about your personality. That’s what’s attracted your reader ship and that’s really what it’s ultimately all about. When I started my blog, it was before magazines got it. Who are these people? Now we’re invited to the stuff we’re invited to and we don’t like that. I definitely have encountered that and been in rooms where it’s been magazine people on one side and bloggers on the other side and nobody wants to talk to anybody, and it’s like why did you guys even invite us here. Especially at Fashion Week. So having gone through that mean girls trial, you know, and passage of fire, you come out to a point where you’re like, okay, if you’ve consistently been doing this for a while, then you see the sea change in how magazines deal with us now. They know they need us and they know that our integrity is vital and something they want to somehow latch onto so that’s something that you’ve worked so hard to build this reputation online. Then it’s like, wait, she’s got so much authenticity and integrity, and she’s known for this. Let me try to get her to write a little page over here, because her readers are going to want to read about it and we’re not even talking to this audience. So that’s kind of what’s happening more and more now. And I think a lot of magazine people who work in print are starting to realize what bloggers realized a long time ago, that your day job is not necessarily guaranteed forever and you are going to have to build your own brand. How many magazine editors don’t have a Twitter or don’t well, exactly. She knows what she’s doing. Eva Chen is someone who has shown what it could be. And using the magazine and the blog together and it’s about their interests.
So I’m thinking about an Essence. Ebony is doing a better job these days. There’s always room for growth and improvement. I think we can learn a lot from each other. Hopefully magazines will get to the point where they’re willing to accept those lessons.
>> MARCUS: I want to add one thing. I’m noticing a trend where a lot of the bigger bloggers are now getting into magazines themselves. They’re now creating their own magazines. A lot of lifestyle fashion blogs that started off being blogs are now have enough money now to make their own magazines. There’s a trend happening because they want something tangible.
>> NATALIA: I would go back to what everybody said, but I think to embrace the difference, when you are the face of your brand, when they come there because they know you, they want to hear about you, they want to hear about what you recommend, that’s why they’re there. Magazines are fun and I don’t mean it in a bad way, but you’re reading a column that potentially was either sponsored by something and they’re recommending these things because somebody paid them to recommend it. Whereas I think maybe they feel more comfortable oh, I know Natalia. She recommends it because she likes it. Even if I do get paid, I won’t get paid for something if I don’t really like it. Hopefully my readers know that about me and think oh, if she’s getting paid, that’s okay because I know she wouldn’t do that if she didn’t like the product.
I do think that having really connecting with your readers and having your face be your brand. That’s important.
>> LESLIE: I think it’s interesting to hear you guys talk about the blurring of what is called church and state in editorial, because I think if this was a roomful of magazine people, they would be quicker to point the finger at you guys saying that you’re taking money for branded content or branded entertainment. But I think you raise great points. I think my fear about the relationship between magazine and bloggers and sort of having lived it firsthand is I think there is I’m not sure that they’re moving in their opinion about what bloggers do. It’s sort of we need to be there. The person at the top says we need to have a digital strategy. These three women and gentleman have figured it out. How do we sort of coop versus putting the tools in place to train their staff to better understand.
So to that end, have you guys ever done any training, like in a more formal way, for other editors, writers, up and coming bloggers. Do you offer that? Do you mentor younger ladies or men that want to get into the business? Is that a part of your business?
>> GABI: Absolutely. I definitely have been around long enough that I have I get that a lot from a lot of bloggers who are in my niche, where they were able to look at me as somebody who maybe created a lane. It has to be an organic thing, though. It’s kind of like the lean in, thing. I don’t necessarily like when without having a relationship beforehand. That happens a lot. Where somebody will randomly tweet me, hey, be my mentor. We haven’t met, we don’t know each other. What does that mean? It has to be a reciprocal coming together. But I do absolutely.
I do have my formal background was in print. So I am coming from that space. It has formed a lot of what I have do.
>> MARCUS: I’ve been able to consult with a lot of brands and companies on their digital strategy just based on my knowledge and because I’m in the game and kind of explain to them how it works, how we work, how to connect with people like us and what we expect and kind of the younger bloggers kind of school them on how to navigate the social world. I think social currency is really important. A lot of people start blogging for the purposes of they want to get free things. After you get your first free pair of shoes or makeup and you’re over it and you want to move on to the next thing. A lot of people that’s what their focus is on now. I’ll become a blogger so I can get a free pair of shoes or get lipstick or whatever the case may be. They think that educating them about what we do, because this is an industry now, a business. I think that’s really important. We all have responsibility to what we put out there in the world. I think that’s part of what I try to do, at least.
>> NATALIA: I think it really is important, because those people are the people that really want to make it a business look bad. I don’t know calling yourself a blogger is I don’t want to say negative, but what we were talking about
>> MARCUS: You wouldn’t
>> NATALIA: I don’t write here so I can get free stuff. I don’t do that. I write because I love it. Why did you start? This is a passion.
>> MARCUS: I think we all, I speak for myself and you were talking earlier, I think that I own a media company. I do experience with brands. I consult with people. I do brand management. So to just sum it up as a blogger is limiting, especially ones that have turned this into a business. I think it’s important to recognize that if you’re a brand ambassador for a company like Monster or to call yourself a blogger is limiting. We have to look at it as a bigger picture. We have to look at the forest, not the trees.
>> PATRICE: Recognize that your role evolves. There is an evolution to the path. It’s a career that has no predecessor. It’s something we are able to create our own destiny as doing this. I still selfidentify myself as a blogger, but there are many hats we wear. Part of being an excellent blogger and building your brand into something you may have even dreamed it is being able to the occasion and do different things. Like the kind of business deals like Gabi and myself line up, I know we both didn’t think it would happen like that. I didn’t go to business school. You have to learn as you go.
>> MARCUS: Exactly.
>> NATALIA: If you are on the newer end or smaller end, I think it’s still important to take all these things to heart because you really have no idea what the opportunities are. You don’t know where you’ll take it. You don’t know what you’re going to be presented in the future. It’s really important to even just you’re here. You want to learn. So think through these things now and really don’t downplay, don’t lessen it for yourself. Embrace it and embrace even if you aren’t a media company. You potentially could be at some point someday. So just don’t be down on yourself. Embrace it, be proud of it. Don’t give everyone a bad name.
>> MARCUS: You never know who is watching. You never know who is paying attention. Sometimes people are paying attention to you a year out before they approach you for a business opportunity. They research you.
>> LESLIE: How many of the four of you participate in Klout Perks.
>> MARCUS: Like the website Klout?
>> LESLIE: They’ve launched a business platform called Perks. We’re seeing a lot of brands. The way that it works, I think everyone may be familiar with what a Klout score is. It takes your social footprint and gives you a grade. When they come to the meetings, they say if your Klout score is over 60, you’re an influencer. Where I sit on the agency side, I get pitched all day long about how people are bringing blogs. So they’ve launched in platform called Perks where they will basically package an experience or some content to give to these “influencers,” with the idea they will talk about it and share it.
>> PATRICE: I’ve accepted a perk or two from Klout, but it’s really them sending you a product and share it with your schedule network. It depends what your schedule is looking like.
>> MARCUS: Do you believe in the Klout score?
>> PATRICE: Not really. I think they’re always looking for a way to assess you and to put you in a certain box. There’s always going to be some new numerical way to judge other people.
>> MARCUS: Yeah. I don’t believe in the Klout score. I once someone came to my house, left a note and says your Klout score’s over 70. You can drive a Cadillac car for three days. And I love Cadillac. Yes, it’s a great car. But I wasn’t interested. Because of my Klout score I can get a car for three days. It wasn’t really a perk I wanted. I have a great relationship with the guys over at Cadillac, but it was through Klout. I don’t want to say it was silly, but the way they measure it, there’s no real way of saying you’re an influencer. So I don’t believe in the Klout score personally.
>> NATALIA: It’s so much more than just a number. Yeah, you’re a 60 or whatever then you can get these Perks. It’s just so much more of all of these things. You can’t really say I get a million hits a month, work with me. It has to be everything. Well, you get a million, are you an influencer or do they come just because they stumble upon you, or do they come for less than a minute and bounce? And you really have to take it in an encouraging way for people who don’t have those stats or don’t have those numbers, it’s okay. It’s more about just everything put together and how you present yourself and how you pitch yourself to the brands or who you’re networking with. There’s so much more. I wouldn’t I would really say don’t worry too much about all those numbers. Granted, you do have to look at a few things, but you don’t have there’s no quota. There’s no hit this and you’re good.
>> GABI: I think we should talk about as bloggers how to make money outside of just your blog and as bloggers what things us the most money each other, what we prefer.
>> LESLIE: Okay.
>> GABI: I think that’s important. I’ll start with my own question. I was just thinking, obviously this is the business of blogging, I want to talk a little bit more about money. As we all said, networks are important if that’s something you choose to do. I still have Google ads. It makes me a decent amount of money every month. Something anybody can do.
>> LESLIE: Do you mind sharing what decent is.
>> PATRICE: No. I’m answering for you, I’m like no.
>> LESLIE: I think people want to know on the high end what is
>> GABI: It’s the smallest I’m fine answering it. It’s the smallest part of my income, but it makes me around $800 a month. I could be probably making more with an ad network.
>> PATRICE: You could.
>> GABI: I could be making more with an ad network. I’m just lazy sometimes. That’s the smallest part of my income. Beyond that I make more from affiliate links, which I’m sure you all know, are a way to link to a product. And if people some are based on clicks and some are based on whether people purchase. I use reward style. It’s the easiest, at least for style bloggers, the easiest way to use affiliate links. It’s very user friendly. I make a percentage, depending on the brand. The brand determines what percentage you make. Yes, I make a percentage of each sale. So if I’m wearing this outfit and I write down, you know, this jacket is from this website, ASOS, it will give me 20% or 10% of the sale every time I make a sale. So that makes me a good amount of money as a style blogger. As I’m posting outfits, I get the money back almost. Sometimes that’s a really expensive dress, but I buy it and I’m able to make the money back and more.
Lastly, outside opportunity. Obviously, as you grow your brand, you will have opportunities to speak, to host events, to collaborate with brands. So beyond just sponsored posts on my blog, I can be a brand ambassador, and so I’ll host their launch party. Most recently I did two campaigns where they shot a video campaign of us. Yes, a sponsored post was a part of that contract, but it was also doing some modeling there. And then in the same thing happened, I was felony to Milan to be part of a Moreno Rinaldi in Italy, and they brought 12 bloggers over and we basically did a video campaign, photo shoots, some of that lives on the blog and TV opportunities. I’ve had a lot of potential reality TV, which I’m not too into. But there’s money to be made there, book deals, things like that.
>> LESLIE: Would you say more than 90 percent of your income is not from the site?
>> GABI: I wouldn’t say 90. I would say about 50/50. So 50% is from affiliate links and advertisers and sponsored posts, and then 50% is kind of offsite.
>> PATRICE: I’m kind of 60/40. So I guess 60 or maybe 70/30. I don’t know. I have been with the same ad network for a long time and I recently moved into a contributing editor position, which is a little bit more substantial. So it’s nice to have that security part of being a blogger is kind of especially a fulltime blogger is that not having that security all the time and it can be a little scary. So you really wind up having to hustle to fill in gaps in your reality, like bills and things like that.
You really do have to push yourself, but I find that you work harder for yourself than you’ll work for anybody else. And it goes back to the original statement of passion and letting it lead you where it will.
In terms of outside opportunities, I do quite a few of the same kind of things Gabi. In terms of I worked with Walgreen’s and did in store stuff and that’s really something I never thought I would do. I never thought I would be a public speaker and get paid to do public speaking. I never thought I would wind of hosting events or a party hostess. You have to be able to assess whether an opportunity makes sense for you. So I think you have to be able to be ready for the variety of opportunities that are going to come your way. Whether that will be radio or television or working with a brand and just being able to be in that space as a professional. So it really is the opportunities just you never know what’s going to come.
>> GABI: And design. Like I said earlier, I designed a capsule collection. They’re partnering with bloggers to design capsule collection and they pay you a certain amount and certain fee. Usually you’ll make a percentage of each sale as well.
>> PATRICE: They should pay you.
>> GABI: Sometimes they don’t.
>> PATRICE: Exactly.
>> GABI: I personally would recommend, it’s a really, really hard call. I don’t know. I don’t know how I feel about bloggers taking big collaborations for free. I think you should know your value and know your worth. Obviously for some people, especially when you’re first starting out, we all do free things because you want that exposure. But it’s something you have to think about. If you’ve been blogging for over a year, you should not be doing free work anymore, especially if you’re giving the brand a lot of traffic or value to your readers.
>> PATRICE: Be aware of your own values.
>> LESLIE: I wanted to get both of your takes on the revenue and then I’ll quickly show everybody some of the work that they’ve done. And then we’re going to open up the floor to questions. So if you want to sort of get ready, you can line up at the mic. The session ends at 12:00. Maybe they won’t kick us out right away, so if we have a little bit more questions. But get your questions ready.
>> MARCUS: So for me, my brand, I think, I build a lot of my business off of things that I do that are not related to the blog. Creating opportunities for other bloggers, working with brands to create content for them.
>> LESLIE: What’s your percentage from the blog and not from the blog?
#06: I’ll probably say maybe 70/30. I’m only saying that because I do so much outside of blogging. For me it’s about doing things in a real world. The real world is just as important as the digital world. And I think I consider myself a culture participant. I don’t spend all of my time in front of the computer screen. I’m out in the world doing things. Working with brands in different parts of the world, working with companies, helping people manage what they’re doing. It’s a big part of my business. Not because I don’t care about the blog, but the blog does bring me revenue and because of relationships I’m able to sell my own advertising. I’m part of networks that are bringing in money for my blog. The most part is doing the things in the real world, creating opportunities for other bloggers, creating things, hosting, being a brand ambassador for a company like Monster. Doing a lot of things that allow me to be creative and maintain my integrity. Just to add to what was being said, I don’t think it’s always about the buck sometimes. You do things for the relationship. You do things for growth. You do things for exposure. Even if you’re a veteran and taking money from one company, you can pick and decide if you take money from another company. I think for me it’s a twoway street. Sometimes I would love to work with a company on a project. You know what, I’ll do it for free. A great lesson I want to finish with would be I’d rather do something for free than get paid for not what I’m worth. So if I’m gonna I’d rather do it for free than you pay me less than what I’m worth. I think that’s kind of a lesson that you learn along the way. You don’t want to take $10 to do something just for the $10. So that’s kind of how I kind of run my business.
>> LESLIE: Natalia?
>> NATALIA: I think it’s wise, everything that they said. I think it’s wise to also put your what is the phrase. Fill your have lots of
>> LESLIE: Your dance card.
>> NATALIA: I don’t even know. Somebody said it as fill your little buckets of awesomeness. You’re saying affiliate links, network ads, appearances. Things like that, because then the passive income, I think, is huge. You’re not doing anything. It’s sitting there. You’re getting paid for people coming to your site. I think that’s necessary because you don’t do anything. That’s an extra six to $700 a month that you did nothing for well, not nothing. Yeah, your passive income affiliate links, ambassadorship. It’s important to look into and put your hands multiple places, I guess, is how I would say it. Just because then, like you’re saying, as a blogger you just never know what month to month will look like. So you want to just make sure maybe my ads are a little bit less this month, but I have two or three more campaigns over here because you are expanded across more areas. Does that make sense?
>> LESLIE: Get your questions ready. I wanted to show you a little bit some of the people on the panel are doing. This is Gabi’s site. Called Gabifresh.
>> GABI: That’s me. That was just a recent post I was explaining I was doing the addition L about their denim jeans. That’s two of the other bloggers involved. Then on the righthand side under my info, you see that’s just a reward style little
>> LESLIE: What platform?
>> GABI: I use Blogspot. I don’t even use WordPress. Underneath that I have Google ads and ads I have sold directly to people who have more independent businesses. I do like to support independent businesses as well.
>> LESLIE: Natalia? This is Natalia’s site. You can see a little ad right here. What platform do you use?
>> NATALIA: I use WordPress and I’m selfhosted. If you have to pay the hosting and if what made it really real for me is when my traffic got to the point where I had to pay my hosting is like $100 a month, and my husband said that needs to not be a hobby. So you need to do something with that or stop. So I was like, all right, then, so let’s do this. Now I’m obviously able to do a lot more than a hundred dollars a month.
>> LESLIE: And the infamous Afrobella?
>> PATRICE: I’ve been on WordPress for quite a while, yeah.
>> LESLIE: Okay. And so these are just some of the
>> NATALIA: I do a lot of hairstyles. It’s mainly what gets the most traffic. It’s what I’m known for. And so those are some pictures. And to the left I’m more fashion and beauty, but my specific niche is practical. I’m not high end. I’m a mom of two kids, so I just want to encourage women of all ages, styles, everything, to embrace your fabulous, whatever that means for you. So don’t try to be like the next person. So that is a challenge I do. You take seven articles of clothing and you remix them seven different ways. Just a really practical way to embrace fashion. That’s me. And I feel like we’re talking about just being specific to who you are. I don’t want to be these high end people. It wouldn’t be natural. These are some different projects that I do that is more specifically my niche.
>> GABI: That’s me. That is the bikini line and the switch suit line that I recently designed. So the Galaxy print sold out in two days. It’s been freaking crazy since then. It’s definitely not something I expected to do ever. I collaborated with a brand to do an online swimsuit thing. This is what happened. So we were just sharing our biggest accomplishments.
>> PATRICE: I’ll talk about each of these things. These are each things that I never dreamed I would ever do. The first one is I gave a TEDX talk in Trinidad. I’m from Trinidad, Spain. That was the scariest thing I’ve ever done. It was about courage. So at the end of it, that was right after the speech, I went out and they were strike a pose about how you feel right now, and that’s how I felt. That was just like last December.
Then in 2011 I worked with MAC cosmetics and that was called the blogger obsession collection.
>> GABI: I still have that.
>> PATRICE: A lot of people came up to me and I’m wearing it. I love that you guys still have it. I wish they were still making it. Someday I’ll make more makeup. I don’t know, we’ll figure things out. That was one of those free opportunities that I learned a lot from doing, but it brought me a lot of really good exposure and opportunities that I never would’ve predicted before. Then it led to things neutral that I wouldn’t have been able to predict.
Then the last one is the Oscars, and Lovy and I are in the front. Who would ever think that being a blogger would take you to the red carpet of the Oscars. Not me. Not ever. That was such an incredible experience. I believe at the time we were told that we were the first black bloggers to work the Oscar red carpet? Is that correct? That was pretty big.
(Applause).
>> LESLIE: So as George Castanza says, leave on a high note.
>> MARCUS: I’m a male. Some of the things I’ve done
>> LESLIE: Just one. We need time for questions. The most impressive thing that you’ve done.
>> MARCUS: It happened so quickly. The last thing I did. As a blogger I went to the console festival and I kind of walked the red carpet, went to see the movie that won the big award. It was kind of cool to know I’m able to share ideas and people can embrace me enough to bring me to these cool places. You can follow me, Marcus Troy on Twitter and Instagram: That’s me.
>> LESLIE: Let’s give a big hand for our panel today. You guys are really inspiring. I’m sure you’ve got a lot of questions out there. The woman in the green and black was up and at them right away. So come on up.
>> Hi, everyone. My name is Samantha Rogers. I’m from Sound Chick accessories. I design hand crafted feather accessories in Chicago. I launched a new dynamic fabulous website at the beginning of this year and it also includes a blog. Prior to this I had a blog. I do so many different things, multimedia professional engineer. I want to tie the blog into my product, but I’m wondering is there a conflict of interest with, like, doing the brand, ambassadorship and things like that because I am promoting my own product or does that make any sense?
>> PATRICE: It depends on the brand. I would say that if you’re gonna have a conflict, the only conflict would be with another feather producing entrepreneur.
>> I do style board with other brands and clothing and things like that.
>> GABI: I don’t think there’s a conflict of interest. I know other designers who feature other brands.
>> MARCUS: No conflict. It’s important to show what you’re working on. That’s how you build your fans at all.
>> PATRICE: Where your information comes from.
>> NATALIA: And potential collaboration, if you can collaborate with brands because of your product.
>> I’m Chris Karizan. I run a blog called Beyond Black and White. It’s primarily African women lifestyle magazine how do you parlay the relationships that you make with PR professionals into, say, advertising. If you’ve been in the business for a while, I was a former publicist, I’m starting to develop relationships with, I’d like to translate that into some dollars.
>> GABI: So I can pay some bills.
>> MARCUS: Can I answer? I work with PR people. It’s really cool because they have access to the brand. And I think you can think beyond just advertising. You can think about collaborating with them on products or a project. If you bring them an opportunity in a PR way, they’ll pay you for that. That’s what I said before. Think of the forest, not the trees. A lot of people work with PR just to get products. For a long time I’ve been trying to figure out ways of working with PR to do bigger projects. Then you become part of a new story that they’re gonna do PR on, but you get paid for that as opposed to being the person writing about the product.
>> How do you ask to be participated here?
>> PATRICE: I use three words, mutually beneficial relationship. Those are the three words I use in an email. When I get a pitch, we want you to do X, Y, and Z, and you’ll go on this fabulous trip, I go say, that sounds really, really cool and thank you so much for thinking of me. I’m wondering how we could make this a more mutually beneficial relationship.
>> MARCUS: I think it should happen organically and prove everything that you’re good at with the work that you do.
>> GABI: Like we were saying earlier on the panel. You shouldn’t don’t force yourself on anyone and yet I think it’s easy for bigger bloggers to sit up here and say organic, organic, when you’re starting out I’m not saying you’re starting out, but if you don’t have as big of a name, it’s hard to let things happen organically when bigger bloggers are getting the opportunities older and older.
>> NATALIA: Can I give a real example. I visited the PR folks at Urban Decay. I love their makeup line. I mentioned you.
>> PATRICE: I love them.
>> NATALIE: Now that I’m starting to develop that relationship and doing reviews and giveaways, so how could I parlay that relationship that I’m developing into something that could be monetized.
>> LESLIE: I actually have a different perspective, because at my agency we’ve been sort of working with this concept. We were sort of asking brands and having a tremendous amount of success to have brands with no editorial control sponsor, and I say sponsor, meaning they’re on staff, support bloggers in that way. And I’m in the unilevers, I’m in the Lexuses of the world. I think there’s sea change different from the PR level. Understanding if I’m unilevers and I’m trying to sell clear shampoo, I am spend $5 on spots and blogs or maybe I can get a blogger that be give me the equivalent of $5 million in media by having a relationship with them. One of the sites we do is a whiskey site and we have a guy who is a big whiskey aficionado, and he sits outside my office and he gets to and gets to do his thing. It’s not just about the PR folks, because there are marketers like myself who are out there trying to look for and find interesting different voices to put in print ads. And that’s in my opinion where the real money is, because we don’t barter anything. Everything we do is paid. It’s another direction.
>> Remind me to take you for a drink after this is all over.
>> GABI: I think PR may be separate from marketing. But for advertising, like we were saying earlier, you may want to try going through ad network. That way you can get it that way and stick to the PR relationships for bigger projects. Maybe pitch put together a media kit.
>> PATRICE: Be aware of what you can offer.
>> GABI: They may not be advertisers, but they’ll good press. So if you say you’re gonna do a big three posts this month on your brand, here is what I have in mind, especially when it’s creative way in your own voice, they’re usually very receptive to it. If they say no, they’ll keep you in mind for future opportunities.
>> LESLIE: We also work with a group in San Francisco called the Clever Girls Collective, for those of you that sort of are talking in the women’s space, whether beauty or fashion. There’s a lot of entities like that that are popping up. Obviously you have to do your homework and see, but I think it’s important to understand how you’re going to use the channels. PR is very different from marketing. It’s very different from a network. And so really understanding for yourself where you want to be and being authentic, I think is really important.
>> I’m Kelly from big Covy Love. I’m Australian. I don’t know how to set up a price. I’m setting up relationships with people. I have no idea what to charge. I’ve spent days Googling what to charge, and I have no idea. If you’re working with your own, is it $5, is it $5 million?
>> MARCUS: $5 million (laughter).
>> NATALIA: I think it’s probably a good idea, it sounds like just about a year you’ve been blogging, it’s probably, like she mentioned, Clever Girls Collective and different agencies, they’re the in between brands and bloggers. They’re the ones where the brand wants to reach, 50 to a hundred bloggers and then have their reach. So what they’ll do is it they’ll pull from their network of bloggers and they’ll say okay we have this campaign and we want you to work on this and we’ll charge we’ll pay you a hundred dollars for this post. And then you decide, okay, do I want to take it or not. So it sounds like at the beginning stages when you’re just getting into stuff like that. That’s a good way to go just because you’re starting to get what are posts worth, especially if you just have no idea. So you can kind of see what are they paying, what should I charge. And then maybe once you get more comfortable with writing that content, with how you present your sponsored posts and being creative with it, you can start knowing your worth. Okay. Now, if I’m gonna do a lot of work, I want a little bit more than what this was paying. Then you can move on and approach your brand. Also, like I mentioned before, potentially working through the brands, they’re still seeing you. If Dove is using this in between person, Dove is still seeing you.
>> LESLIE: Absolutely.
>> NATALIA: Maybe later, once you’ve been more established and you’ve done more posts you can come back to Dove and say, remember me, I did this post, it got this kind of feedback. Are you interested in maybe developing a better relationship. I really do think it’s important to start a relationship and you can’t have nothing established and approach a brand and say, hey, call me. There’s more of a process. If you’re at the beginning, I think that’s a good way to start. Not the only way.
>> Thank you very much.
>> MARCUS: I want to add to what I used to do or try to do or maybe I did, I’m not sure anymore, is really give yourself a dollar amount that you’re worth per hour. And so if you say to yourself, you know, I’m worth 50 bucks an hour, you know if you’re working for a company and you know you’ll spend three or four hours on a campaign, you work three hours for $50 or you got to travel five hours, three days, four days, you do the math. It could be a couple thousand bucks at the end of the day, depending on what you feel your time is worth an hour.
>> $5 million. (Laughter).
>> LESLIE: Last question. Then this is it.
(Off microphone)
>> MARCUS: Could I answer? I used to be the guy that would want to protect my ideas. But I realized a long time ago that sharing your ideas and talking about them is how they come to reality for the most part. And you can’t be afraid to put your thoughts out into the universe. A lot of people will die with their ideas and never come to fruition. For me I put it out in the universe. I leave in God’s hands. I’m a believer, sorry. Don’t be so protective of your ideas.
>> GABI: I agree. Once in a while, unfortunately, you may see someone may steal it and not use you, but for the most part I think if you bring a good idea to the table, a brand will want to work with you, especially because that means you’ll have good ideas in the future.
>> NATALIA: Like Marcus was saying, the brand could have something you bounce brands off of each other and it could turn into something bigger than you imagined because you had somebody else to feed off of. Maybe you have more resources than you or whatever it is. And it really, like you said, if you keep it to yourself, nothing’s going to happen. So you either put it out there and you try to develop that and move forward, or you keep it to yourself and it’s really probably not going to go anymore.
>> PATRICE: You have to know you’ll be the best one to execute whatever your vision is.
>> NATALIA: If you’re creative, and the brand will say this is impress I this is something I haven’t seen from these ten other bloggers that have called me or whatever. They’ll see that in you and hopefully be more interested in you to work with you because of that. I don’t think it’s a bad thing.
(Off microphone)
>> GABI: Or you could always give them an outline and say I would love to work with you if you’re interested. I would have a huge, you know, in depth study that I love to show you. Let me know if it’s something you want to work with me on. They give they may be interested in seeing more. Then you guys can sign a contract and then they can see it.
>> LESLIE: That ends our panel. Let’s give everybody another round of applause.
(Applause).
>> LESLIE: I’m sure if you have individual questions you can come up and talk to any of us. We’ll be here.
>> I want to make one more quick announcement to thank Marcus Troy. He is here as a living example because he was brought here by Monster Cable. That’s why he’s got the sexy headphones. So check it out, maybe Marcus will walk you through and give you a tour.
>> MARCUS: We’re giving some away. Make sure you go to the information.
(Adjourned.)
